Excellent as always. Thank you! I completely appreciate the role of fasting in our lives to "put to death the deeds of the flesh ... in service to the formation of virtue." As I approach my first Advent fast as an Orthodox Christian I'm wondering - why meat? Is it the sacrifice of the pleasure of a delicacy? Is the sacrifice of the energy of nourished health? My husband and I have eaten carnivore for the last several years. Eating meat (wild Alaskan game and fish primarily) has been the sacrifice of modern industrialized foods in pursuit of honoring our physical temple. We pretty much ONLY eat meat and eggs (and bread is a major no-go for my genetic makeup). As I consider what ancient people would've eaten without meat I'm guessing bread and vegetables? Realistically I'm afraid I will gain 40 pounds and throw my hormones out of whack after pounding simple carbs and processed foods for 40 days.
I guess my question is whether it is meat specifically that matters for some reason? Is it primarily about sacrifice? Obedience? Can we likewise fast from the things that are most out of alignment or over extended (i.e., sugar, caffeine)? Then again, I understand that 'Saints fast to exhaust the body and quell its passions, making them easier to subdue.' So maybe my issue is just that I don't want to slow down enough to deal with the exhaustion. I don't know. I'm just really struggling with how to do this in a way that doesn't require 6+ months of just getting back into good health. When I've fasted in the past I truly could not function in modern life. I want to honor God and draw near but (coming from a family of morbid obesity) I feel like I've just finally began to do exactly that by sticking primarily to protein. Any thoughts are appreciated.
I resonate with this a lot! This was ultimately my biggest hurdle when I was ready to become a catechumen. I'd been a raw milk drinker for a good decade+ with a very animal-based food philosophy (and I do mean philosophy!) my whole adult life. I just couldn't wrap my head around the fasting protocols and it's still a struggle sometimes. The prescriptions feel too loose for a contemporary grocery store culture. You're telling me Oreos are fast-friendly but liver is not? I can eat a hyper-palatable foods like vegan pizza but bone broth is out? Also, to *some* degree, asceticism at a lay level cannot be prescribed. Cutting out sourdough bread is far more of a loss to me than cutting out steak. (I know I should love steak, but it's something I eat for health not happiness 😭.) I also share your concerns about hormonal health. We, especially women, *need* animal fats for our hormones, need animal protein to prepare us for pregnancy, etc.
For my first three 40-day fasts, I made up my own rules. I created my own regimen that felt very ascetic to me, but also didn't bump up against my food philosophies. But truthfully, despite it being difficult, something felt missing for me. So this year, I went all in. I ate only fruit, vegetables, and shellfish. I also did take a supplement to get some animal fats in because I intend on having children someday. This was a totally humbling and transformative experience for me. I put my trust in the Church's guidance, though it went against all my study and intuitions. I was not expecting such a humbling transformation from the inside, but it was one of the most beautiful periods of faith for me in my life so far.
I'm far from an expert on this, but my understanding for why these prescriptions are what they are is that we're meant not to eat warm-blooded animals to symbolize the blood shed by Christ for us. That's also why, in many jurisdictions, shellfish is allowed because they don't contain blood in the same way.
I'm not offering any advice, only kinship on this topic. I know there are people who eat strict carnivore with the blessings of their priests during fasting seasons. This is totally personal, and my eyes are on my own plate, so to speak. Truthfully, I would probably have to start over at a humbling square one again if I had a priest who prohibited shellfish.
First of all, is this the Julia of Nathan Jacobs podcast admin?! 🤗 Either way, thank you! You nailed it when you named what a merely legalistic approach to fasting can end up looking like - Oreos over steak (I forgive you for not naturally loving steak 🥩 🤣). My passions are salivating! I appreciate your reminder that asceticism can’t really be prescribed (except maybe by your spiritual father or mother?). Your heartfelt description of how meaningful it was to go all in made my eyes misty, probably because I do so long for that! Thank you for sharing your experience with me.
Excellent as always. Thank you! I completely appreciate the role of fasting in our lives to "put to death the deeds of the flesh ... in service to the formation of virtue." As I approach my first Advent fast as an Orthodox Christian I'm wondering - why meat? Is it the sacrifice of the pleasure of a delicacy? Is the sacrifice of the energy of nourished health? My husband and I have eaten carnivore for the last several years. Eating meat (wild Alaskan game and fish primarily) has been the sacrifice of modern industrialized foods in pursuit of honoring our physical temple. We pretty much ONLY eat meat and eggs (and bread is a major no-go for my genetic makeup). As I consider what ancient people would've eaten without meat I'm guessing bread and vegetables? Realistically I'm afraid I will gain 40 pounds and throw my hormones out of whack after pounding simple carbs and processed foods for 40 days.
I guess my question is whether it is meat specifically that matters for some reason? Is it primarily about sacrifice? Obedience? Can we likewise fast from the things that are most out of alignment or over extended (i.e., sugar, caffeine)? Then again, I understand that 'Saints fast to exhaust the body and quell its passions, making them easier to subdue.' So maybe my issue is just that I don't want to slow down enough to deal with the exhaustion. I don't know. I'm just really struggling with how to do this in a way that doesn't require 6+ months of just getting back into good health. When I've fasted in the past I truly could not function in modern life. I want to honor God and draw near but (coming from a family of morbid obesity) I feel like I've just finally began to do exactly that by sticking primarily to protein. Any thoughts are appreciated.
I resonate with this a lot! This was ultimately my biggest hurdle when I was ready to become a catechumen. I'd been a raw milk drinker for a good decade+ with a very animal-based food philosophy (and I do mean philosophy!) my whole adult life. I just couldn't wrap my head around the fasting protocols and it's still a struggle sometimes. The prescriptions feel too loose for a contemporary grocery store culture. You're telling me Oreos are fast-friendly but liver is not? I can eat a hyper-palatable foods like vegan pizza but bone broth is out? Also, to *some* degree, asceticism at a lay level cannot be prescribed. Cutting out sourdough bread is far more of a loss to me than cutting out steak. (I know I should love steak, but it's something I eat for health not happiness 😭.) I also share your concerns about hormonal health. We, especially women, *need* animal fats for our hormones, need animal protein to prepare us for pregnancy, etc.
For my first three 40-day fasts, I made up my own rules. I created my own regimen that felt very ascetic to me, but also didn't bump up against my food philosophies. But truthfully, despite it being difficult, something felt missing for me. So this year, I went all in. I ate only fruit, vegetables, and shellfish. I also did take a supplement to get some animal fats in because I intend on having children someday. This was a totally humbling and transformative experience for me. I put my trust in the Church's guidance, though it went against all my study and intuitions. I was not expecting such a humbling transformation from the inside, but it was one of the most beautiful periods of faith for me in my life so far.
I'm far from an expert on this, but my understanding for why these prescriptions are what they are is that we're meant not to eat warm-blooded animals to symbolize the blood shed by Christ for us. That's also why, in many jurisdictions, shellfish is allowed because they don't contain blood in the same way.
I'm not offering any advice, only kinship on this topic. I know there are people who eat strict carnivore with the blessings of their priests during fasting seasons. This is totally personal, and my eyes are on my own plate, so to speak. Truthfully, I would probably have to start over at a humbling square one again if I had a priest who prohibited shellfish.
TL;DR I HEAR YOU!
First of all, is this the Julia of Nathan Jacobs podcast admin?! 🤗 Either way, thank you! You nailed it when you named what a merely legalistic approach to fasting can end up looking like - Oreos over steak (I forgive you for not naturally loving steak 🥩 🤣). My passions are salivating! I appreciate your reminder that asceticism can’t really be prescribed (except maybe by your spiritual father or mother?). Your heartfelt description of how meaningful it was to go all in made my eyes misty, probably because I do so long for that! Thank you for sharing your experience with me.
That's me! 😘
I was also just laughing out loud at the irony of feeling like my understanding of fasting is utterly anemic. 😂